while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. Then yes, M18 would be toast. On the contrary, the mixture of traits that German vehicles get is often favorable. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming, Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? On the other hand, allied planes get the bomb loads because their cannons/mgs are less effective against German meds and heavies. The majority of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly unused in the game, especially all the high velocity variants of the bullets. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. Thats why the Germans tend to be passive. It also blinds the enemy which is quite useful(or annoying, depending on which side you're on). If you liked it, feel free to sub. Alternatively they could bring in an ground attacker with a better CAS loadout, but in turn be utterly outmatched when it comes to fighting for control of the sky. It bounces off and does little or no damage when pens. I bought the premium centurion to grind britain and rarely had this problem. With a particular fixation on the M18, German players often complain about German vehicles and how they lack the mobility of their Allied opponents. And I've never lost my barrel to 50s ever in all the time I've played German tanks. I don't feel I need assume such things as this is already quite relevant to my interests. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Allied CAS is absolutely by far and away superior, only the 37mm armed Bf-110G is superior to allied cas, it's actually really good. Oftentimes, if left unharnessed, the cannon birds have better potential to destroy multiple targets. If anything i insist you grind out to the T34 play about 100 games you'll tend to find that the two are rather close to compare. I tested you 50 cal theory and it can be done but it takes so many rounds and reloads its not an arguing point at all. Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. You can go through things but often times you die. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. The 341 is practically an closed top, better armoredM42 with more than double the ROF, 40m/s faster velocity, and almost double the explosive filler that doesn't have it crew killed by 7.62s and doesn't explode from a stray bullet hitting it's exposed ammo. As a bad player I would say that German ground vehicles require a lot of patience to play effectively. Done. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Long range eliminations tend to be how I foil most of the cappers I kill. - If its not, he will hide and wait till you cap. Besides, Panther II mounts the long 88 so T__ tanks still can and will bounce it with ease. I'd recommend not making part of the argument then to begin with, The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. Or is it? I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. By A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. The AR with no armor, lackluster speed, no guns, or perhaps the TA which can only do bomber hunting and perhaps a few light vehicles however with limited ammo and frail frame it will get eaten by .50 CAL You can check the loadout options, you either have to pick a fighter, bomber or an attacker, there are no multi task missile and bomb armed super props that can wreck havoc on the ground and then dominate the sky. With so few vehicles in their selections at 4.X and 6.X, the Americans and Russians face much worse situations with uptiers. Download Free PDF View PDF. APDS is guaranteed damage, just aim for specific crew one at a time or shoot for modules. No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. And we can't skip over the SPAAs either when discussing counters against CAS. Furthermore, using simple math, after 2 Minutes the number of places where the M18 could be is much bigger than the number of places where the Panther could be. Only switch to the 3rd auto gear if going down hills and on flat roads. Ok, so you don't agree that it is easier to flank with small and fast vehicles? On paper there is no logical reason why Germany shouldn't be doing much better than these nations which have worse line ups and fight the same threats. Objectives are death traps usually placed in a way that does favour German CATs, but you know that quite well. You can do just as well with a vehicle that has different strengths if you use those strengths correctly. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. Get comfy and ambush them,you said it yourself he has five options give him a sixth one he forgot, two places they'll never look behind themselves or above themselves or I guess threeif you count beingfar away. Panther speedcross country on flat terrain is42km/h. Fapadoska, 1 hour ago in Questions to the Team. When I played my 6.0s, uptiers to 6.3 and 6.7 were common but things worked out well. The second was the Persian Gulf War era Challenger 1, which was the British army's main battle tank (MBT) from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s. War Thunder trading. You don't need to win the match in the first 5 minutes of the game, late games are a thing. If you want to do well with germany, I'd recommend playing 5.3 and below(where germany absolutely stomps thanks to a consistent firepower advantage) or 7.7 and above(where germany stomps due to a mobility advantage). . Meanwhile the M18 will be sitting in the ambush or going around the cap into your back because he know that you will not dare to cap. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. for example to prove what i said u can see that with panther A br reduce to 5.7 germany teams improved a lot, because panthers have much better gun handling than tigers. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. Pretty unfair that almost all US tanks have those AA HMGs. they turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc, Stock ammo of the Leo 1 is the same as every other 105mm L7 at 7.7. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. germany 5.3-6.3 problem its the same as soviet mbts 8.7-10.3 problem. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? Are king tigers unplayable? 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Uptiers are a pervasive issue for every nation at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. In an uptier when being met by a T54. that's it. Nope but you will have your own luxuries instead, the fact that you knew what he was trying to pull off and decided toplan his demise in advanceand he won't have aclue until its too late. When I play american tanks I always use the .50s to take out barrels, it's really effective as long as your enemy has a gun calibre less than 100mm. The real question would be if you can deny the enemy taking the capture point from long ranges, which would be a resounding no. Samuel Tito Pessa. Its not like I am proposing to ram the enemy. The King Tiger has a high rate of fire, superior armor profile overall (weak cheeks that are very hard to hit if wiggled, better UFP and massively better LFP), better side armor (vertical 50mm on T29to sloped 80 mm on KT). Well technically everyone suffers but you would have clicked on this otherwise. Yes, but just pointing out that "Japanese bias" has been used before. Apds isn't guaranteed damage actually put rounds through things and have done no damage on many occasions. He will retreat and find a way around you. If the team melts, the team melts. That's a big if there, an M18 still isn't fast enough to out run a gun so its unlikely for them to survive long enough to retreat out of an ambushand flank you, heck even half of them that do make it out get blown up latertrying to flank you as they may become careless with hatred. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. But you can reach it fast enough as it'll be on your quarter of the map, the faster tank is the one whoneeds the half map. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. Vehicles, If it would be all open flatlandlike it was like in the battle for Prokhorovka, how much fun would it be if your whole team always faced circumstances where your mobility perks were objectively neglected, especially the aspect where you have to always emerge in to the open for capturing points - the most usual way of winning a battle? The most obvious example of this is that a player can jump directly from the Panzer IIIs at 3.0 to the Tiger H1 at 5.3. Better late then never, only took them 5 years to catch up. He was 60 years old. In Panther? That's your personal preference. In this video, I and a couple of friends play one of the best lineups in the game.#warthunder #germany #friends To say that Germany suffers over this is wrong. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. What's clear is how later German vehicles are designed to deal with tanks at long range, making use of frontal armor, penetreation and RoF. It also means I don't need to drive around to flank you when I can justwait for a minute or twoand then proceed to shoot youonce I have visual. What do you expect? I haven't had a single game with Germany either on the same or enemy team without there being a single puma. Ugh. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. Hard cover will always be superior to armor in WT. FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. Many German players will often hang back and camp (which can be good, if done in moderation--Germany gets above average exchange rates this way) but critically, problems arise when these players never do move up. Just hide behind a hill or a tree and wait till the panther finally arrives, and then shoot that big juicy target in the side (i do that all the time, the best vehicle to kill king tigers is actually the M56 Scorpion). history projects. Or this amazing times when you play the tractor simulator trying to get you slow vehicle to this surprising spot which takes you forever, and hoping that noone shoots or bombs you on the way there. german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Really? He just needs to find the right way to flank you. Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. Let me repeat that. NO 4.3 FRENCH TANKS? And the stock ammo of the german M48A2C is the same as the US/Chinese M48A1, but somehow the US/Chinese M48A1 is at a higher BR. (If you can tell us, ofc I understand you might not be able to.) It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. sdkfz 123 panzerspahwagen ii luchs fast . Tell me what 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side of the T series. In other words it's very hard to find a proper backup. Germany has some of the best CAS, the best SPAA, the best light tanks, and just the best overall line up at 6.7 yet they are generally performing in the range or sometimes below that of worse nations at the same BR despite facing the same threats such as France, Italy, and Japan. Even then you aren't going to see UK tanks in 100% of your matches. So in short up until br 6.7 theres nothing much. He usually has like 5 different options. panzer ii ausf l luchs mit bildern panzer panzer ii. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. .50 CALs are overpreforming by a mile. MBIZO CHIRASHA( International -Zimbabwean) is a Pan-Writivism Laureate Literary Arts Activism Diplomate/Influencer, Certified Projects Curator, African Writing Associate/Visiting Arts Programs, World Renowned Anthologist, Poet in-Residence Emeritus ,Festivals Convener/Speaker/ SpokenWordArtist. And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. The complaint is one thats pretty common for all nations--uptiers. Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? The blinding effect happens but its not as bad as your saying it is. Relative merit is in play here. How to use automatic gear optimal to get the Panther moving: If you move on flat or rising terrain, roads are an exception, use the 2nd auto gear. Example, an M18 is freaking fast compared to a Panther or any other German Tank of that tier. He is guaranteed to be faster at the cap point and can set up an ambush. The T28 is indeed scumy, not because its to op but because its almost the same tank as the T95 but at a lower br also the side armor thing matters a lot, this is a slow tank, THE slowest tank actually, the panther and tiger have enough speed to compansate for it unlike the HUGE top speed of 13 km/h that the T28. Turret armor>>>hull armor for a number of reasons. Contrary to popular belief there is more then one way to exploit this knowledge. Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. King Tigers are too slow and obvious to really bother with going for caps, and their armor isn't reliable enough to use as a spearhead for an attack. The Challenger 2 is the third vehicle of this name, the first being the A30 Challenger, a World War II design using the Cromwell tank chassis with a 17-pounder gun. Selling Top German/UK Tank and Plane & US Top plane with many Premium. And Germany has long 88s also at 5.7. And it is this knowledge that will the panther driver often stop from advancing beyond certain points on the map, because he thinks: " There is probably a M18 on the enemy team and based on my experience and knowledge of the map I know that beyong this point there is a high chance that the M18 is somewhere on the edge of the map behind a hill and is waiting till I leave my cover. But be aware of your week side armour. The only real difference between the 2 is the people playing them. You have to be reactive rather than proactive and take advantage of mistakes made by allied players. Tracks cover most of the hull so thats a no-go unless you're literally 10m away. Well one or two not that much but a bit more and flying becomes more problematic. Yes, with an M18 I am also eaily killed from the front due to lack of armor. Allied CAS i superior. This is especially visible while on 6.7 when vehicles of the same tier can lol pen Tiger II upf. Simply replacing them with a JPz 4-5, Ru 251, or M41 could raise their combat effectiveness 5 fold, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. Does Germany suffer and from what? Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. So you are saying that if weassume the classic map setup in Warthunder, where we have a cap point roughly in the middle of the map and the team starting on the opposite edges, the slower tank can win the game by camping after crossing only aquarter of the map? In which I have to say no, it's not ONLY the Germans that have bad reverse speeds. Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. I am obviously a bit salty though, I've played basically every nation in WT except the USA so maybe I'm a bit biased. What about T95? I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. This pretty much says it all, and it describesa fundamental problem with ground RB: the fastesttanks with decent firepowerare the only vehicles in WT that can set up ambushes early game (which helps setting up ambushes mid and late game as well); slower TDs and tanks can't fulfill this role in WT even if they were designed specifically for this purpose and fulfilled it very successfully irl; the brawling maps which drastically cut down the range of engagementscombined with the "early game race" effectively prevents this. And the overwhelming sense of hopelessness when the enemy team finds outhowithappened, that moment alone is to die for. It is almost exactly the same as the normal Tiger II, about the same play time yet it has a 47% WR compared to 43%. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44-100. Again as stated before in other threads it is an option it is not viable in most instances as you typically just die. Scriptures from many world religions, science facts, safety & reminder tips, cuisine, sports, books, art, music, movies, TV. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. Its an endless cycle so you better get used to it. FRENCH ATGMS ARE NON-EXISTENT. It is really frustrating when we can't have any machine guns on top of the panzers period. And as I've tested myself it was consistent to take out the 2 crew members on the one side of the breach ay 400 meters. More like genre savvy actuallyI know the score. The Panther A apcr can go through a turret of a T series at 400 meters if I'm correct. The reverse speeds of all of these tanks mean you must step forward progressively, rather than figuring on advancing and reversing on a whim with them as you would with others. To say that . Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. Yeah why wouldn't it? Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? Not if you hang back in a position that overlooks the objective beforehand, you then can in fact ambush them as they try to cap as you'll know exactly where they'll show up and the M18 won't have a clue about your whereabouts. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. Your best chance would be using Japan yourself, Ah I see. Having the Panther 2 in game used to alleviate this problem and give 6.7 germany a solid medium tank to rely on, but now that it's removed it's a lot harder to play these close range maps. I don't think the hull of the king tiger is worse, it's obviously better, I'm just saying it's not better by a huge margin.
